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Thursday, Oct 29, 2020

Full text: Cui Tiankai's interview at the 2020 Aspen Security Forum

Full text: Cui Tiankai's interview at the 2020 Aspen Security Forum

On August 4, Chinese Ambassador to the United States Cui Tiankai was invited to attend the 2020 Aspen Security Forum and had an online interview with Mr. Nicholas Burns, executive director of the Aspen Strategy Group, and Andrea Mitchell, chief foreign affairs correspondent for NBC News, on issues related to China-U.S. relations.

The ambassador also answered questions from the audience. The full transcript is as follows: 

Nicholas Burns: You're most welcome here, Ambassador. I'm going to turn this interview over to Andrea Mitchell. But I just make one point that I was beginning to make with Andrea when we were waiting. I think that U.S.-China relations may be at their lowest point, since before President Nixon's opening to China in 1971, 1972. There is great concern in the United States about the Chinese government abrogating its commitments to the people of Hong Kong, concern about the conflict along the border between India and China at the Himalayas, concern about Chinese activities in the South China Sea. You and I have been part of this relationship from a government perspective for many, many decades. It seems to me that we're turning away from the cooperation, the large-scale cooperation of the last 40 years, decidedly towards competition, in the military sense, over economic issues, on 5G. And the question I have for Andrea and you and for your interview is, as we compete with each other and we're certainly competing, can we find a way to cooperate on climate change, on the pandemic and other big global issues? 

Andrea Mitchell: Thank you so much. Thank you, Mr. Ambassador. It's a great privilege and an honor to have you joining us today. And I want to pick up where Ambassador Burns set the table, which is that most people do believe, in both of our countries, that this is the most difficult time, I was going to say, since 1979. But certainly Nick Burns just said, really, since Henry Kissinger's trip in 1971. So is there a way, first, do you agree that this is a perilous situation? And how would you correct it, or do you think it needs to be corrected? 

Ambassador Cui: First of all, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to have this conversation. We are at a very critical moment for our relations between China and United States. In a way, we can say it's unprecedented since Dr. Henry Kissinger's visit almost half a century ago. The choices we're making today will shape not only relations between our two great countries, but also the future of the world. So we have to make the right choices. We have to base ourselves on the long-term interests of our two peoples and of the world. 

Andrea Mitchell: A big source of the current tension, from the U.S. perspective and others around the world, is the pandemic. The President has been blaming China for not alerting the World Health Organization soon enough to the human-to-human transmission of COVID-19, and doing more to contain it. How would you respond to that criticism? 

Ambassador Cui: I think we have to base ourselves on real facts. The fact is very clear. The timeline is very clear. China is one of the countries that reported such cases first. But now there are increasing reports and information about possible earlier cases elsewhere in the world. 

Scientists all over the world are still working very hard on this particular pandemic, on the virus. But we identified a few cases in Wuhan in late December last year. And even for the doctors, people like to call them "whistleblowers," they say they have encountered some cases of pneumonia of unknown cause, which means at the time little was known about this new virus. Very few people, I think nobody in the world knew anything about the new virus. But as soon as we had these cases, we reported to the World Health Organization. 

The first report was done on January 3, right after the New Year's Day. So it's just a couple of days. Then the next day, the CDCs, Chinese CDC and U.S. CDC, had their first communication on this particular virus, even before people could give a name to this COVID-19 virus. People were still calling it pneumonia of unknown cause. Then on January 12, as soon as we identified the genome sequence of this virus, we shared it with the WHO and the international community. So everything was done very quickly. 

Of course people are still learning more, still trying to learn more about this virus. I don't think we already know everything about this virus. This is a fact. But as soon as we discovered something, we shared it with the international community. This is also the fact. And at that time, when we first reported to the WHO, when we first shared all this information with the international community, you still had single-digit number of cases in the United States. 

Andrea Mitchell: That is certainly correct. But did you report human-to-human transmission is the question. Because you did share the DNA, the sequencing, but did you share human-to-human transmission in the most timely way that you could have? 

Ambassador Cui: Yes, indeed, I think this is extremely important for our response to the virus. That's why we sent our national exports to Wuhan, to determine whether this is transmitted among human beings. And once they determined that this is transmitted among human beings, we had Wuhan locked down. Within a couple of days, we locked down the whole city of about 12 million people. So everybody knew that this is transmittable among human beings. And within two or three days, the United States evacuated its consulate from Wuhan. So everyone knew this is very dangerous. 

Andrea Mitchell: Just a few months ago when this all started, President Trump was praising President Xi's response. Now it's very different. Are they communicating at all? 

Ambassador Cui: They have had two phone calls in the last few months, and people at the lower level, lower than the President's level, have also had their communication. Of course, the two economic teams have been in touch more frequently. And what is even more important is that the scientists of our two countries are working together. Some of the American experts, very well-known professors of public health specialists went to China in very early days. And they also joined the team sent by the WHO to China in February. I think it's very fortunate our scientists are still working together. 

Andrea Mitchell: Now, more recently, the U.S. has filed charges against a number of researchers and academics, for it says trying to steal COVID vaccine information from U.S. technology companies or universities. And they say it's part of a broader pattern of intellectual theft. Can you respond to that? 

Ambassador Cui: The problem nowadays is that very often allegations are made without giving any hard evidence. The international community should really cooperate with each other to develop as soon as possible an effective vaccine, which should be shared by the entire world. That's why President Xi Jinping declared at a special conference of the WHO that if China could develop this vaccine first, we'll make it global public goods. 

Andrea Mitchell: Now although Moderna, one of the leading research companies, that is testing vaccines in phase three, has said that the Chinese government-linked hackers have targeted them to steal data. 

Ambassador Cui: The fact is, as early as in March, some of the American companies even came to see me. They asked for cooperation with their Chinese counterpart to develop drugs or vaccines. I think we should encourage scientists of our two countries and other countries to cooperate. If people want to make allegations, they have to show the evidence. It's quite possible that hackers from other countries are trying to infiltrate or attack China's research institutions. This is also possible. 

Andrea Mitchell: Let's talk about the Houston consulate, where, as you know, it was the first consulate opened back in 1979 by China in our country. So it's a very important foundational consulate. And China has responded by closing the U.S. consulate in Chengdu. Do you think that this will escalate? 

Ambassador Cui: We did not start the whole thing. This is very clear. We certainly want to maintain both consulates. As you said, our consulate in Houston was the first Chinese one in America. It was the outcome of Mr. Deng Xiaoping's visit in early 1979. People just like Texas, like Houston, they like the basketball Rockets, Yao Ming, Texas steak and everything. The consulate has been doing a lot to facilitate exchanges between the two countries, people-to-people contacts, and cultural, sport, educational exchanges, a lot of good things for both countries. So it's really unfortunate. It's so bad for the U.S. side to decide to close our consulate in Houston. Based on the principle of reciprocity in diplomacy, we have to respond. But we certainly don't want to have all this from the very beginning. We certainly don't want to see any escalation. 

Andrea Mitchell: I do have to ask you, though, about the allegation that on a broader scale, if U.S. officials claim that the Houston consulate was a haven for spying, for intellectual property theft. They say that 80% of espionage cases end in China and 60% of trade secret cases end in China, of all the countries in the world. So they are saying that China is more responsible than any other country by far for trade and intellectual property theft. 

Ambassador Cui: These allegations against our consulate or any of our diplomatic missions here are totally groundless. People cannot assume other people are doing all these things just because they are exactly doing the same thing in other countries. This is the problem. Some people are doing all these things in other countries. But now they are blaming other countries doing such things. We never do these. 

Andrea Mitchell: Let me ask you about our top diplomat, the Secretary of State, whom you know well, because he gave a speech at the Nixon Library which is highly symbolic, since President Nixon opened the door to our opening with the People's Republic of China. He said some very harsh things, he said if we bend the knees now, our children's children may be at the mercy of the Chinese Communist Party, whose actions are the primary challenge today in the free world. How do you view this? Is it a direct challenge to the government of China? 

Ambassador Cui: I have been to the Nixon Library more than once. A few years ago when they had the renovation, they invited me for the reopening. I was there together with Dr. Henry Kissinger and a number of other people. I was very impressed by the Nixon Library. By the way, I have been to a number of presidential libraries here. They are, all of them, are very unique. But I think if we have a close look at the history of our relations since President Nixon's visit to China, or since Dr. Kissinger visit to China, several things are quite clear: 

First, the normalization of relations between our two countries and the growth of this relationship over the decades has served the interests of both countries and the world very well. It's quite clear that all of us are still enjoying the positive outcome, the benefits of the growth of this relationship. Nobody can really deny this. 

Number two, our two countries, of course, are very different in terms of historical heritage, culture, economic development, and political system, and so on and so forth. These differences will be there, maybe for quite a long time to come. But they should not be seen as barriers for closer relations between us, they should be seen as opportunities, possibilities for mutual learning, for cooperation. 

To be fair, over the last few decades, we have learned many things from the United States. There are still things we have not learned from the U.S., and things I think we should never learn from the United States, such as obsession with global dominance. We are two different countries, but we have to work together. We have to understand we are living in the same world. We are living in this small global village. There are so many global challenges we share. Neither of our countries can really handle all these things all by itself. Nick just mentioned climate change and terrorism, and so many natural disasters. Both peoples have aspirations for a better life. If our two countries can cooperate with each other, it will enable us to meet our people's needs even better. So this is the choice we have to make, cooperation rather than confrontation. 

Andrea Mitchell: A Chinese foreign policy expert in Beijing called Pompeo speech "a new cold war declaration of the United States." Is that your view that this is a declaration of a new cold war by the Secretary of State? 

Ambassador Cui: I don't know why people like the term "Cold War" so much. The correct lesson we should learn from past history is that such a cold war serves nobody's real interest. Today we are in the 21st century. Why should we allow history to repeat? Why should we repeat what happened in the last century when we are faced with so many new challenges, global challenges? I don't think a new cold war would serve anybody's interests or will give us any solution to the problem. 

Andrea Mitchell: Is there a way to dial down the rhetoric as long as you speak of global dominance, the President speaks of the "China Flu"? Those are harsh words. 

Ambassador Cui: It's certainly wrong to have such stigma. And the virus, as defined by the World Health Organization (WHO), is COVID-19. The WHO has a rule that the name of any such viruses should not be linked with any particular place, people or ethnic group, or even a particular animal. This is an international rule I think all of us should follow. As for global dominance, China certainly has no intention to seek global dominance, but some people here in this country talk about it so often. It seems to me that there is an obsession with it. 

Andrea Mitchell: How do you interpret global dominance? Is it the phrase "America first," or what's your sense of what global dominance means, as you see the United States? 

Ambassador Cui: This is a very good question. Those who are seeking global dominance should give us an interpretation. I don't think anybody should try to do that. 

Andrea Mitchell: I want to ask you about the new law in Hong Kong, which the United States and British officials have criticized as well as others. China is now delaying Hong Kong's election that was to be held on September 6 for a year. Couldn't the election be held safely despite the pandemic? Why delay the election for a year? And can you assure residents of Hong Kong and the world that there will be elections, democratic elections in Hong Kong? 

Ambassador Cui: The decision to delay election in Hong Kong was made by the Hong Kong government, and the reason is the pandemic. Because in recent days, people see a significant resurgence of the confirmed cases. This is very alarming. The Hong Kong SAR government decided that if the election goes as planned, the risk, the danger of the pandemic spreading even wider will be very serious. Actually in other parts of the world, maybe dozens of countries or regions have decided to somehow postpone their elections or events like this. 

As for the new law, the National Security Law in Hong Kong, by definition, it is about national security. Actually, Hong Kong should have enacted its own law for national security as provided for by the Basic Law of Hong Kong. But 23 years have passed since Hong Kong returned to China, and the law of national security is still not there. Its absence has led to a lot of serious consequences. People see rising violence in Hong Kong. The city is quite destabilized. People feel it's no longer a very safe place to live or do business. And of course, the absence of this law has hurt China's national security interests, and also hurt the safety and security of the people both in the mainland and in Hong Kong of China. It is also hurting the interests of Hong Kong's international economic partners. 

In a sense, we were forced to enact this law, so that as there's better guarantee for Hong Kong's stability. So the rising violence in Hong Kong could be stopped. Everybody could have a safer environment, a safer place to live. Hong Kong could continue to be an international financial, trading and transportation center. And the system, the policy of "One Country, Two Systems" will continue. 

Andrea Mitchell: Of course, the Hong Kong government that delayed the election is hardly independent from Beijing. The people who are invested in democracy in Hong Kong want the election and the people who want a stable economic base in Hong Kong around the world want elections and a stable democracy. Today China has issued arrest warrants for six pro-democracy activists, including one who was an American citizen. And of course the well-known Nathan Law, who is already in the UK. What actions were they taking that threatened the stability in Hong Kong? 

Ambassador Cui: I don't think that people should make the distinction between what they call "democracy" and "anti-democracy." Actually all these law enforcement actions are taken according to the law. If anyone violates the law, they should be punished. That's it. It doesn't matter what kind of political views they might have. Nobody should violate the law. 

Andrea Mitchell: I want to ask you about TikTok. The President was talking about banning it. Now it is apparently possibly going to be purchased by Microsoft, the American entity of TikTok. Given China's law and China's ability, Beijing's ability to demand that Chinese corporations can retrieve data from any of these companies, can you understand why President Trump and the U.S. government want to make sure that if TikTok operates here in the U.S., Beijing will not be able to retrieve and get any data from U.S. citizens? 

Ambassador Cui: I don't think there's an evidence that any company is giving such information to the Chinese government. People make these allegations, but they never show any evidence. Very often we hear complaints here that we don't give a level playing field to American companies. But more and more, I believe we should complain Chinese companies are not having a level playing field here. There is such a degree of political intervention, government intervention into the market. There's such a discrimination against Chinese company. These companies are just private companies. 

Tt's not fair to make such allegations without giving any evidence and to accuse China of not giving American companies a level playing field while at the same time they themselves are denying Chinese companies such a level playing field. This is extremely unfair. 

Andrea Mitchell: Despite all these tensions, you alluded to the fact that there are still conversations at lower levels on economic issues. Is the trade deal going to go forward? Do you still see that as in China's interests and obviously, we have to see whether it is still in the U.S. interest. Would you think that is now also in peril? 

Ambassador Cui: We signed the phase one trade deal in January. As far as I know, the two economic teams have been in contact with each other at various levels. And we are making good progress. For instance, what China committed to do in the first four months for the implementation of this trade agreement. We agreed to do 50 items. We have done all of them in the last four months. And we are still purchasing American products, including agricultural products. The pandemic is hindering the normal trade flows. This is also the reality. But we are doing our best to overcome the current difficulties to keep the trade flow, and to implement this trade agreement as effectively as possible. 

Andrea Mitchell: And I want to ask you about military tensions. The U.S. says, China is being aggressive by claiming areas in the South China Sea that are international waters, or do you see the U.S. and China moving more closely to some kind of a military confrontation? 

Ambassador Cui: There's a long history behind the situation in the South China Sea. Before the 1970s or 1960s, actually there was no territorial dispute in the region. And some of the claimant countries put forward that claim starting from the 1960s or 1970s. We have our historical claim and we have strong historical and legal support for our claims, but still we are ready to negotiate with other countries concerned for a peaceful solution to the disputes. 

That's why we are working with the ASEAN countries over the years. I myself worked for quite a few years with the ASEAN countries on drawing up the Declaration of Conduct for the parties concerned. Now we are working on the code of conduct between China and ASEAN countries, and we are making good progress. We always believe that any territorial disputes shall be resolved through negotiations by the parties directly concerned. And we certainly aim to have a diplomatic solution, a negotiated solution. This is our commitment. It's not changing. 

In the meantime, we should really work together to maintain stability of the region, and all of these sea lanes are extremely important for the Chinese economy. A large portion of our imports and exports have to go through these sea lanes. So we really have high stakes in the safety and security of navigation. So if these things are left to the countries concerned to work out, the situation would be much better. The problem is the intensifying U.S. military activities in the region. The U.S. is sending more and more warships, military airplanes more frequently to the region. This is really raising the risks of any conflicts or confrontation. 

Andrea Mitchell: The President and Secretary Pompeo talked about trying to engage China in a trilateral arms control agreement with Russia and the United States. It's one of the reasons they say they withdrew from the INF Treaty that Russia was cheating, and it was more important to negotiate with China as well. Is there any sense that China would be interested in negotiating missile limits in an agreement with Russia and the United States? 

Ambassador Cui: There are now very important negotiations between the U.S. and Russia on some of the existing treaties between those countries. These treaties are extremely important for international strategic stability. We hope these treaties could continue. But I don't know what is happening between the U.S. and Russia. Maybe we should, I do hope we could have a reason to be optimistic, but I don't know. We just pray that they will continue these treaties and keep the international strategic stability. 

All over the world, the United States and Russia have the largest nuclear arsenal. This is known by everybody. This is international consensus. So they should take the lead in international nuclear disarmament. Hopefully they could show us leadership. China has a very small amount of nuclear weapons. It's not at the same level. We are far behind the U.S. and Russia. I still remember some of my colleagues dealing with disarmament issue, they asked a very good question. They want to know whether the US is ready to reduce its arsenal to the size of China's, then we can start real negotiation. I hope we could be given a very convincing answer. 

Andrea Mitchell: I want also ask you about the situation with the Uygurs, because we hear devastating reports of what has happened with the people there. Tell the world why China feels threatened by this Muslim minority who have been imprisoned, tortured, slaughtered in large numbers, according to reliable human rights activists. 

Ambassador Cui: The fact is the people in Xinjiang, all the ethnic groups, no matter what ethnic group they belong to, the people there were threatened by rising terrorist and extremist activities. In recent years, until quite recently, there were hundreds, even thousands of such terrorist attacks in Xinjiang, and hundreds of thousands of innocent people were hurt or even killed. So the people there were really threatened. We have to take measures to stop the spread and the threat of terrorist activities. Some of these groups are linked to ISIL. They were also trying to spread extremist ideas. So people's safety and security were really threatened. Thanks to the measures that have been taken over the last few years, for the last three years and more, there has been no terrorist attack in Xinjiang. People are living in a much safer environment. People can really enjoy good life. This is happening to all the people there without any distinction between the ethnic groups. 

Andrea Mitchell: According to the United Nations, more than two million people there, Ambassador, are held in detention camps. 

Ambassador Cui: No, this is not United Nations figure. This figure is fabricated by somebody else, certainly not the United Nations. It's very clear. We have invited, over the past few years, we have invited UN officials, foreign diplomats, journalists (to Xinjiang), many of them from Muslim countries. And none of them supported such claims. 

Andrea Mitchell:
 So you are saying there are not millions of people in detention camps. 

Ambassador Cui: There is no such a thing. I was there in April last year. I had a personal visit there. I even visited one of these training centers. I met people, talked to the people there, the Uygur people. I even met a young Uygur couple who opened a restaurant in one of these training centers and were making good money. 

Andrea Mitchell: Obviously, we'll have to do more work on that. But I know that this is an almost universally held criticism of China. And it's something that the world really needs to have more answers to. 

Ambassador Cui: Well, Madam, with all due respect, I very often hear people in this country say this is something universal. But when they say universal, it's mainly the United States and a couple of European countries. If you talk about anything universal, you have to consider China itself has 20% of the global population. If you count in countries like India, African and Latin American countries, the majority of the global population is very often not included in the so-called universality (that is often referred to in this country). 

Andrea Mitchell: I want to get back to the relationship between President Trump and President Xi, because we saw them at Mar-a-Lago. We saw the President's grandchildren singing in mandarin to him back in 2017. It's a relationship that even through January and February of this year, the President was praising President Xi. How do we get to the point of him talking with racial epithets like "Kung flu" and also talking about the "China flu." Why do you think he is blaming all of this on China? 

Ambassador Cui: I don't think there is something for me to explain. But I can tell you, I have been present at most of their meetings, Mar-a-Lago, Beijing, and Argentina, Buenos Aires, and Osaka last year. The meetings between the Presidents have provided important guidance to the overall relations. All these meetings were quite positive. I would certainly look forward to more interactions like this, an effective working relationship between the two governments, between the two leaders. 

Andrea Mitchell: Is there any chance of an overture? Would there be any outreach from China to Washington, or should Washington reach out to China? Who will take the first step at the head of state level? 

Ambassador Cui: This is a job we diplomats really have to do. My good friend, Ambassador Branstad in Beijing, I myself here in Washington, we will continue to do our best. 

Andrea Mitchell: Nick Burns raised the issue of cooperation on global warming, on climate change, perhaps the greatest threat facing the world, certainly the greatest threat facing the world. Can that progress be made as long as the United States does not rejoin the Paris Accord? 

Ambassador Cui: Whether the U.S. will come back to the Paris Accord, this is a decision up to the U.S. to make. But it's quite clear, climate change is a very good example that we are living in a very different world. We are living in what we call a globalized world. Whether you like it or not, this is a reality. And we have to work together to respond to all these global challenges. No country can handle all these things by itself. We have to work together. But for China and the United States, since we are the two largest economies in the world, since we are permanent members of the UN Security Council, we do share special responsibility, not only to our own people, but also to the international community, that we should take the lead in promoting international cooperation to confront all these challenges. We're certainly willing and ready to do all this. 

Andrea Mitchell: Returning to Hong Kong for a moment, I just wanted to ask you, will you commit to holding an election in Hong Kong a year from now? 

Ambassador Cui: This decision has to be made by the Hong Kong SAR government in accordance with the Basic Law and its own laws. It's not up for me to say. 

Andrea Mitchell: Are they really able to make that decision without Beijing's approval? 

Ambassador Cui: You see, Hong Kong has a high degree of autonomy...... 

Andrea Mitchell: Well, it did, but it no longer does. According to most people …… 

Ambassador Cui: I think people have to be careful. High degree of autonomy is different from total independence. Hong Kong is not a sovereign country. It's part of China, it's a special administrative region of China. So Hong Kong's governance is based on, first of all, the Constitution of China, then also on the Basic Law of Hong Kong. Actually the Constitution of China and the Basic Law of Hong Kong provide the real guarantee for this "One Country, Two Systems."

Andrea Mitchell: But under "One Country, Two Systems" which we understand, can the Hong Kong government go ahead and hold an election if it does not have independence, if Beijing does not want it to? 

Ambassador Cui: No, the decision to delay was based on the assessment of the situation of the pandemic. This is the only reason. They cannot take the risk that more and more people would be affected and things could get out of control. The risk is just too high for them. 

Andrea Mitchell: I know that there are a lot of people who want to ask questions as well of you. And I don't want to take all of your time, Ambassador. You've been very, very generous with your time with us today. 

Question: Thank you very much. And thank you, Ms. Mitchell and Mr. Ambassador. Unrelated to the discussion so far, I'd like to talk about the Arctic. And I'd like to ask you about China's interest in the Arctic. Such that China has felt the need to declare itself, without an Arctic border, to declare itself a near Arctic power. So my question for you is what is the impetus for this great interest in the Arctic? Is it mineral acquisition? Is it transportation? Is it strategic with respect to the movement of potential military assets? Is it to keep up with your friends, the Russians, or even with us? So I put this to you as an open question. Thank you very much. 

Ambassador Cui: I'm not expert on these issues. But China is the second largest economy in the world. We certainly have a lot of interests in the world. And we certainly want to make contribution to the preservation and utilization of any part of the Arctic. We want to make our contribution. We want to work with other countries. We have no military intentions for these places. We want to contribute to peaceful use and preservation of the environment there. And we are ready to talk with other countries. We know the United States and countries like Russia have very strong interest. Then we should all talk to each other and should work together to make sure nothing wrong is done to that part of the globe. 

Question: Thank you very much. So my question is with regards to the policy of engagement. So the discussion in the United States holds essentially that engagement is dying and seems to me that in lieu of an explicit policy between the two countries, we will see the security issues dominating in security there, and then we see the downward spiral. So my question to you is, what do you see as an engagement 2.0 policy? What kind of steps we're trying to be willing to take? What kind of steps do you think the U.S. would need to take? I think if we look at the USTR, the trade agreement, we have phase one already completed, seems to me that phase two might be a big step in the right direction. What are your thoughts on that? Thank you. 

Ambassador Cui: There's a clear need for our two countries to have all-round engagement with each other, trade, finance, environment, security issues, international and regional conflicts, all these issues. Because we are the two largest economies in the world. We are permanent members of the UN Security Council. We do share interests and responsibilities. 

Meanwhile, what we have to do more and better now is to build mutual confidence, to aim at a much better mutual understanding of each other's intention and not allow any miscalculation or misperceptions to hijack the relations. Without such mutual understanding, our cooperation or engagement or coordination in any area would be very difficult, even for the trade agreement. If we really want to make progress in the implementation of the trade agreement, we have to enhance mutual understanding. And we have to enhance mutual respect, and try to have mutual accommodation. You see, (the relation) between two countries is very similar to relation between two persons. If you don't respect each other, if you don't understand each other, how can you work with each other? If we could have that basis, then the possibilities and the opportunities for our two countries to cooperate on so many issues are just there. 

Question: Just follow up a little bit on the previous question. Is there going to be specifically a meeting on August 15, my colleagues are reporting at the Wall Street Journal, to re-evaluate the trade agreement? And if so, what is China's position on that? Thank you very much. 

Ambassador Cui: Thank you for your question. Yes. The original plan was for the two teams to meet six months from the starting of the implementation of the phase one trade agreement. The two teams are still talking to each other. But probably they will not be able to have a face-to-face meeting. They have to have something like what we're having now, a meeting online. If they have reached a decision, it could be announced. If they do have such a meeting, it would be very positive. 

Question: Hello, Ambassador. Thank you so much for a very kind and informative conversation. It's conversations like this that will hopefully bring our countries back together to be the friends that we want to be for a very long time. I personally feel that China is just going to the thousands of years where China was an equal in the world community. What do you feel the symbolic things America and China could be doing to get our relationship back to where it was not too long ago? And let's remember during the 2008 financial crisis, it was China that spent an enormous amount of money that helped the entire world financially. What do you feel that we should be doing to help right the ship of good relations with the two most powerful countries in the world? Thank you. 

Ambassador Cui: Thank you very much. Thank you for your very encouraging words. And I do share your hope. I totally share your hope. You are right. If we look at the three major international crises since the beginning of the century, the 911 terrorist attack, the international financial crisis, and now the pandemic. It's quite clear the global challenges we are faced with today are global in nature. And they require global cooperation, and especially cooperation between our two great countries. Otherwise, none of us will be able to really solve these issues, to overcome such difficulties, and really make our future much better. We are also working together on many of the international, regional issues, from the nuclear issue on the Korean Peninsula to the Iranian nuclear issue, from Afghanistan to the Middle East. All these issues also require multilateral collaboration and cooperation between our two countries. 

A very good example would be what we just talked about - climate change. Another example will be the current pandemic. I don't think any country can really handle this pandemic all by itself. Of course, we are faced with somehow different situations in various countries, because conditions vary in different countries. But still, I don't think any country can say, I'm 100% safe from the pandemic while other countries are still struggling. We have to help each other. We have to make sure that the pandemic is contained and hopefully overcome, effective vaccine is developed, effective medicines are developed, and lives are saved. People can have a better assurance for their health. And this has to be done by the entire international community. And hopefully our two countries can really take the lead in this. 

Andrea Mitchell: Mr. Ambassador, I know Nick Burns is going to ask you the final question. But I just want to say, I want to thank you for making yourself available. It's a very important forum, the Aspen Security Forum. 

Ambassador Cui: I think you have asked very good questions. Thank you very much. 

Nicholas Burns: Andrea, thank you very much. Ambassador, thank you for the interview. Ambassador, I wanted to ask one final question if Andrea would permit. Maybe Andrea could be the umpire. The Ambassador and I met in Grand Rapids, Michigan 18 months ago. We spoke at a conference in front of 500 business people to mark the 40th anniversary of the establishment of the U.S.-China relationship by Jimmy Carter and Deng Xiaoping. There was a little bit of celebratory mood then that the United States and China had done a lot, accomplished a lot together. 

But Ambassador, the mood is shifted quite dramatically in the United States. There is widespread disappointment, I would say, even anger in the United States about China's actions, anti-democratic actions to snuff out the democracy in Hong Kong. There is a sense that in the South China Sea, the People's Liberation Army (PLA) moving out against both the Philippines and Vietnam, acting illegally, and the extravagant legal claim that China has. Widespread opposition to what's happened in the PLA assertive against India on the very long border in the Himalayas. And Andrea asked you a question about the Uygurs. In this country, there's a lot of evidence. And we believe that the Uygur population, maybe up to as many as one million people, have been subjugated unfairly and treated unfairly. So I want to say to you, and we've known each other a very long time, the views are hardening here in the United States. And I would even say that most Democrats and most Republicans are united in the belief that China has been too aggressive in the Indo-Pacific, and that we may be at a fundamental turning point towards competition. 

So my question to you is, is there a recognition in Beijing of the very tough-minded attitudes here, negative attitudes here with the United States towards China, towards the government in Beijing, by both of our political parties and nearly all of our leaders? And what can Beijing do to allay that concern? Because this is part of what diplomacy is. Right now, we are not seeing much conciliation at all from the Chinese government. 

Ambassador Cui: Nick, when you were talking, I somehow thought you were still the spokesperson for the State Department. Andrea and I, we touched upon many of the issues you just mentioned. We have a limited time. I don't want to repeat everything. But let me say this to you. The Chinese people are also very much shocked, they feel very disappointed about what is happening in this country towards China. There's a rising anger among the Chinese public. People have to be aware of this. You are asking us what we can do to make the relations better. And people in China are asking what the United States can do to make the relations better. For many of the issues, sometimes I just don't understand why misconceptions could continue and even spread. 

I myself was involved in dealing with many of the issues in Asia. I know China and all our neighbors just want to have normal, stable, friendly and mutually beneficial relations. We do have disputes, like the border disputes with India, and some territorial disputes in the South China Sea. But on the whole, all the countries in our region want to develop mutually beneficial relations. I don't think any one of them want to see any escalation of tension. This is also the reality. So, I have full confidence that between China and our neighbors, we will be able to solve any problem through friendly and peaceful negotiation without external interference, without external attempt to escalate the situation. For instance, China is surrounded on the land by 14 other countries. That means we have land borders with 14 countries. And out of the 14 countries, we have already solved the border issues and concluded treaties with 12 of them. India and Bhutan are the only two left. Maybe we are not able to solve the border issue in the short while. But I don't think this issue should dominate relations between China and India. And I think our Indian friends would share my view. 

So hopefully our American friends could have a really better understanding of the realities in our region, could really understand our concern, our perception, and what we need, what the people in the region really need, and could refrain from taking any action to take advantage of any disputes in the region or even escalate the situation. 

The real problem for America, I want to be very honest and frank with all of you, the real question for America is: Is the United States ready to live with another country with a different history, different culture, different system, but with no intention to compete for global dominance with the United States? Are you ready to live with us in peace? This is the fundamental question. Hopefully, politicians, diplomats, journalists, scholars here could think about this really seriously. 

Andrea Mitchell: Thank you again. I think Nick correctly points out that there is political agreement among Democrats and Republicans on few things in the U.S. right now. But suspicion and antagonism towards China is one of them. So we, both of our countries have our work cut out for us to try to overcome those disagreements. 

Ambassador Cui: That I agree. We will have both sides, both of us have to work harder to overcome the current difficulties, to try to solve, to dispel such suspicion, doubts, or even fear. We have to build a constructive and mutually beneficial relationship for the future. 

Andrea Mitchell: Can all agree with that aspiration. Thank you so much. 

Ambassador Cui: Thank you.

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